“Ad Hominem

From the latin for “to the person”, an ad hominem is an attack against the arguer rather than the argument. This doesn’t mean that you simply call the person a jerk; rather, it means that you use some weakness or characteristic of the arguer to imply a weakness of the argument.”

and

“Straw Man

This is where you state your position, and your opponent replies not to what you said, but to an exaggerated and distorted caricature of what you said that’s obviously harder to defend.”

I’d like direct examples of how anything Scott has said fits into those. Personally, I only saw the ‘call the person a jerk’ attacks.

Just my $.02 that I thought you needed.

Oh, and for source purists, the two quotes are from Skeptoid – Where you’ll find other great examples of fallacies in arguments.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4073

Is anyone here, debating on the merits of higher education actually an educator? Has anyone considered yet what higher education is really for and who actually does benefit from it? The debate is not weather what Ryan Sohmer and Lar deSouza (please get it right by now) are doing is amazingly kind or generous. Hell they are giving away money they don’t need to because they care about the field they are in. That is altruistic and I guarantee whoever they find will deserve it because they will not let their money be pissed away or their scholarship pissed on. The debates is weather higher education, in cartooning, no scratch that, in anything, is necessary, is useful and is only reserved for the rich.

First of all education, like life, is what you make of it. If you don’t try, if you don’t work hard and stop blaming others for your failures, if you decide that the world was designed for you to do whatever it is you want then you will fail. People need to realize they are but a speck in this world and that for anyone to take you seriously you need to push and push. There are thousands of people trying to become successful in the same field you are working in and you need to be able to best all of them.

What education does, what it was designed to do, is prepare you for the world to kick you in the ass over and over again because if you can’t take rejection in a controlled environment you are screwed in the real world.

It is also designed to give you a leg up on others. What’s wrong with that? If you have people that know even just a little more than you do helping you, giving you guidance you get that little extra push you might need. That’s where the idea of education started from, apprenticeships which became internships so that you can learn from elders who might not be experts but at least have been around long enough to know a thing or two.

Will you always get the best professors, the best people to guide you, or the best advice? Of course not because the best people are not always there to help you since they would rather complain on message boards about people taking their jobs or do their own thing because it makes them more money. Some however will use their influence to help others because they realize with great power…no not going to do it.

Teaching is not for everyone, going into work every day to try to teach a 16 year old math is not always something I want to wake up to. However it is something that I love. When even one kid shows they care, works hard and tells you thank you it’s amazing. I wouldn’t trade it and to make remarks about how a teacher sucks, sure there are bad teachers out there but there are also bad bosses, bad jobs and bad coworkers. Maybe it’s just you making excuses to why you can’t do better.

Now some people can do it all on their own. They can spend the long hours perfecting their craft, working on ideas, combing through pages and pages of conflicting information to find the stuff that maters to them all alone with no one to help. However some people need a guide, some people need a mentor. For those that just want the piece of paper saying “Congratulations you spent a 100,000 dollars, got drunk every night and squeaked by” it’s not worth it. For those that work hard it will be benefital because you have friends to help that you made in school, you have teachers to help that will support you in school. You aren’t only paying for tools, for information, but you are paying for a network that if you use it, especially in a field that relies heavily on people, will benefit you every day. Regardless if something is accredited or not it doesn’t really matter if they have the tools readily available for you to get you on your way.

I’m not going to go into the debate of Web comics vs traditional comics. Whatever way you want to share your art form is fine with me. Yes the internet has enabled people to put crap up that you have to wade through to get to the good stuff but so do newspapers. Plus that’s what links on comics you like are for. To point you in the direction of other great material you might enjoy. For me Penny-arcade begot PVP which begot LICD, LFG, chainsawsuit, Anders loves Maria, The Abominable Charles Christopher and all of those begot even more. So I guess a lot of you can thank Scott and Mike and Jerry at least for my traffic and clicks and merchandise purchases. Also um, Kid’s Play. That’s all I have to and should have to say about how amazing the webcomics community can be.

Finally, the end of this long winded, poorly worded and rambling post that I hope has a point. Education is not only for the rich or can only benefit the rich. I went to one of the most expensive universities in the US, NYU and so did my brother. My family is middle class all the way and had to scrimp and save to afford our tuitions. No scholarships whatsoever since we are white and again, middle class. We went because we wanted to learn from the best. I became a teacher after going to business school because I learned that I was better at teaching our youth then sitting in front of an excel spreadsheet for 100 hours a week. Education is what you make of it, if you do it on your own or with help, if you want it bad enough you’ll find a way. The piece of paper means nothing if there is absolutely no substance to back it up. A lesson I try to get across to my kids every single day.
It’s hard but worth it when even one kid gets it. Also vacations are great. This reminds me, I have a vacation break to start enjoying. Happy early Thanksgiving everyone, keep doing what you are doing (most of you anyone) because us fans all marvel at how you do it.

You can’t afford dinner with Ted. I know this is true because I’ve never seen your W-9 forms.

Of course, anyone can promise anything. I used to work at a college financial aid office, so I know there are many individuals who promise scholarships they can’t actually pay for, leaving the students high and dry.

The only way to know whether we should be impressed or dismayed will be to check back in 2015 and see if promises were delivered upon.

@Greg: It’ll be a cold day in Dick Cheney’s secret location before I talk about anything personal related to Richard or any other of my friends or colleagues. What he wants to say is his business.

@Scott: It’s a date. I’ll pay with that wacky old-fashioned printed cash. You gonna be at NY Comicon?

To add a little to the argument:
There are different ways in which Sohmers exculation program works. Quoted:
“Over the course of the next 5 years, we plan on adding 1 student per year, thus by 2015, the Scholarship will be putting 5 students through the program per year.”

2010/11: one student: year one. (Overall students: 1.) (($16 000))
2011/12: two student: year one, one student: year two. (Overall students: 3.) (($48 000))
2012/13: three students: year one, two student: year two (Overall students: 5.) (($80 000))
2013/14: four students: year one, three students: year two (Overall students: 7.) (($112 000))
2014/15: five students: year one, four student: year two (Overall students: 9.) (($144 000))
2015/16: five students: year one, five students: year two (Overall students: 10.) (($160 000))

Overall students up to 2016: 20
Cost up to 2015/16: $560 000
Continuing cost: $160 000 a year.

Amount of new students. past 2015, per year: 5
Overall amount of students, past 2015, studying at any point: 10

Or possibly

2010/11: one student: year one. (Overall students: 1.)
2011/12: one student: year one, one student: year two. (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2012/13: two students: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 3.) (($48 000))
2013/14: three students: year one, two students: year two (Overall students: 5.) (($80 000))
2014/15: four students: year one, three student: year two (Overall students: 7.) (($112 000))
2015/16: five students: year one, four students: year two (Overall students: 9.) (($144 000))
2016/17: five students: year one, five students: year two (Overall students: 10.) (($160 000))
(This way costs a little less but takes longer)

Overall students up to 2016: 16
(at 2016/2017: 21)
Overall cost to 2015/16: $400 000
(at 2016/17: $560 000)
Continuing cost: $160 000 a year.

Amount of new students. past 2015, per year: 5
Overall amount of students, past 2015, studying at any point: 10

OR possibly:

2010/11: one students: year one (Overall students: 1.) (($16 000))
2011/12: one student: year two, one student: year two (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2012/13: one student: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2013/14: one student: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2014/15: one student: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2015/16: one student: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))

Overall students up to 2015: 5 (6 in 2016)
Cost up to 2015/16: $176 000
Continuing cost: $32 000 a year.

Amount of new students. past 2015, per year: 1
Overall amount of students, past 2015, studying at any point: 2

or possibly:
(Most likely)

2010/11: one student: year one. (Overall students: 1.) (($16 000))
2011/12: one student: year one, one student: year two. (Overall students: 2.) (($32 000))
2012/13: two students: year one, one student: year two (Overall students: 3.) (($48 000))
2013/14: two students: year one, two students: year two (Overall students: 4.) (($64 000))
2014/15: three students: year one, two students: year two (Overall students: 5.) (($80 000))
(Then either extending to six students, or alternating between adding two and three students to year one.)

Overall students up to 2015: 9
Cost up to 2015/16: $240 000
Continuing cost: $80 000 a year.

Amount of new students. past 2015, per year: 3 or 2
Overall amount of students, past 2015, studying at any point: 5 (three in year one, two in year two – two in year one, three in year two.)

NOW. JUST TO SAY HERE:
How can you say Webcomics don’t make money, when Sohmer is literally GIVING AWAY at least $32,000 a year. (Most likely $80,000 a year and possibly $160,000 a year)

A-hmmmm?
(I know, maths overload)

And it was achieved without the help of Wiley. I am in awe.

Why do you continue to deny that webcartoonists can make a living when you have first hand knowledge from working with R Steven on Diesel Sweeties? Surely you must have some idea what his financial situation was like before you signed him up? And R has stated as a fact in an interview[1] that the financial rewards from syndication were not anywhere close to his webcomics earnings and that frankly it wasn’t worth the effort to toil for years getting his strip into papers when he could earn more money (he claimed he earned more money before he went into syndication in that interview) from the web. I assume he discussed this with you considering you were his ‘boss’ (for want of a better word).

So either you know that R is making a living from webcomics or you believe he left syndication for reasons other than it wasn’t worth it to him financially. Which is it?

[1] http://www.wired.com/underwire/2008/07/r-stevens-steer/

And I read comics.

I’m not counting on art school helping me to get a job, but it has instilled in me a real appreciation for and a developing intellectual prowess when it comes to art, comics, cartoons, and culture and I’ve considered it worthwhile. Maybe I’ll make art, maybe I’ll try cartooning, maybe I’ll go to grad school. Maybe I’ll flip burgers. I guess the jury’s still out on how college will pay off for me, but I will say this:

I’d never heard of Ted Rall before reading Daily Cartoonist.

So I did what any perfectly average, modern kid would do. I googled him. I found a site that required me to click through to an entirely different site to see his comics. The site set off my popup blocker. But I found myself reading a few comics and even laughing at some of the jokes. Then the site told me I wasn’t smart enough to read a 2 week old comic. Well ok, what it meant to say was that I wasn’t a premium user who pays the site and they have cute little name for those users: “Geniuses.” I’m not really tempted to go back, much less become a “Genius.”

But I read PvP daily. Now, for full disclosure, I’ll say that I’ve never bought anything from PvP and I’m not a convention goer, but I also don’t use AdBlock and I recommend the comic to my as many of my friends, as often as possible. I’m not growing out of this. Mr. Kurtz has me as a reader for as long as keeps posting. Not trying to make him feel old, but I’ve literally grown up with his characters. Brent Sienna and Skull are to me what Calvin and Hobbes and Garfield were to Scott.

To any creators still skeptical of the internet, neither me or any of my friends buy newspapers. None of us have any real reason to start and our nostalgia points are all allotted to saturday morning cartoons and video games, not Beatle Bailey. We’ve grown up seeing one old, monolithic industry after another collapse because they’ve refused to adapt. Its not that we’re apathetic, but we do have different values than you. And you know what, the people who will be cartooning 20-30 years from now, will be those who have learned to reach out to people like us. So the question you have to ask yourselves is this:

Where does YOUR newspaper see itself in 10 years?