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	<title>Comments on: Rall responds to Time&#8217;s top 10 editorial cartoons</title>
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	<description>The source for industry news for the professional cartoonist</description>
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		<title>By: Monty Rohde</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78535</link>
		<dc:creator>Monty Rohde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78535</guid>
		<description>I think Mike&#039;s idea is practical  and some attempt should be made to implement it.  I doubt anyone&#039; s paying attention to this thread anymore put there&#039;s a point I&#039;m trying to make a pretty significant one.

Instead of the usual venting or ego stroking why not come up with a solution?  Take an honest look at the situation , look at the options available and pursue the best ones. This would be a far more productive use of your time.

You&#039;re supposed to be a bunch of accomplished professionals, start acting like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mike&#8217;s idea is practical  and some attempt should be made to implement it.  I doubt anyone&#8217; s paying attention to this thread anymore put there&#8217;s a point I&#8217;m trying to make a pretty significant one.</p>
<p>Instead of the usual venting or ego stroking why not come up with a solution?  Take an honest look at the situation , look at the options available and pursue the best ones. This would be a far more productive use of your time.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re supposed to be a bunch of accomplished professionals, start acting like it.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Brian Kelly</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78510</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Brian Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78510</guid>
		<description>A short note of clarification to Ted. After the AAEC&#039;s  &quot;Black Ink Monday&quot; a few years back, the Chicago Tribune created a small feature panel in the Sunday Perspective section called &quot;Local Draw&quot; which used the work of talented freelance independent cartoonists. I have no proof that it was done in response to BIM but the timeline works out. I contributed a few cartoons to it overa 12 month period as did other Chicago area cartoonists. It was a relatively lucrative gig for spec piecework.

Submissions increased as word got around. 15+ cartoonists began sending cartoons weekly. The price went down by 25%, then dipped some 10% more. The Trib was sold to Sam Zell. Debt went through the roof. The Trib underwent a radical redesign. Layoffs. More layoffs. The Local Draw cartoons shrank in size, then got dropped to irregular publication status. Editors changed. Editors changed again. Cartoons disappeared completely. Trib files Chapter 11. 

I don&#039;t always feel that editors are the enemy in all this. They are trying to keep their own jobs and cartoons represent cost. Most of the Trib editors really liked evaluating the cartoons and took efforts to pick the best ones available that week.

It&#039;s the economy. No money for drawings. I think editors appreciate a good editorial cartoon. They just can&#039;t afford it anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A short note of clarification to Ted. After the AAEC&#8217;s  &#8220;Black Ink Monday&#8221; a few years back, the Chicago Tribune created a small feature panel in the Sunday Perspective section called &#8220;Local Draw&#8221; which used the work of talented freelance independent cartoonists. I have no proof that it was done in response to BIM but the timeline works out. I contributed a few cartoons to it overa 12 month period as did other Chicago area cartoonists. It was a relatively lucrative gig for spec piecework.</p>
<p>Submissions increased as word got around. 15+ cartoonists began sending cartoons weekly. The price went down by 25%, then dipped some 10% more. The Trib was sold to Sam Zell. Debt went through the roof. The Trib underwent a radical redesign. Layoffs. More layoffs. The Local Draw cartoons shrank in size, then got dropped to irregular publication status. Editors changed. Editors changed again. Cartoons disappeared completely. Trib files Chapter 11. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t always feel that editors are the enemy in all this. They are trying to keep their own jobs and cartoons represent cost. Most of the Trib editors really liked evaluating the cartoons and took efforts to pick the best ones available that week.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the economy. No money for drawings. I think editors appreciate a good editorial cartoon. They just can&#8217;t afford it anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: KRANKY (JOE RANK)</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78508</link>
		<dc:creator>KRANKY (JOE RANK)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 08:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78508</guid>
		<description>Something that could be fun to do is some kind of informal peer revue. Like having only other editorial cartoonists nominate their top five picks over the year...and they cannot select their own. 

Perhaps some enterprising cartoon maven that is familiar with website construction could set up  a venue for this purpose? Then any interested parties could submit their own top five to be voted on by the body. Seems that this would have more of an inprimatur than some nebulous and subjective dartboard nomination of disaffected junior editors at a declining magazine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that could be fun to do is some kind of informal peer revue. Like having only other editorial cartoonists nominate their top five picks over the year&#8230;and they cannot select their own. </p>
<p>Perhaps some enterprising cartoon maven that is familiar with website construction could set up  a venue for this purpose? Then any interested parties could submit their own top five to be voted on by the body. Seems that this would have more of an inprimatur than some nebulous and subjective dartboard nomination of disaffected junior editors at a declining magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Peterson</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78507</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78507</guid>
		<description>&quot;And what makes you think your picks would be any less biased?&quot;

Nothing. Read the full thread.

And then explain why the AAEC would want to pass up a chance to promote its members&#039; work? 

I mean, do you understand that, when a film -- even a mediocre one -- wins an Oscar, ticket sales go up? That a Caldecott medal sells books? That a Grammy sells records and a Tony sells theater tickets?

The AAEC -- of which I am not a member nor qualified to be one -- exists to promote editorial cartoons. This would be one way to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And what makes you think your picks would be any less biased?&#8221;</p>
<p>Nothing. Read the full thread.</p>
<p>And then explain why the AAEC would want to pass up a chance to promote its members&#8217; work? </p>
<p>I mean, do you understand that, when a film &#8212; even a mediocre one &#8212; wins an Oscar, ticket sales go up? That a Caldecott medal sells books? That a Grammy sells records and a Tony sells theater tickets?</p>
<p>The AAEC &#8212; of which I am not a member nor qualified to be one &#8212; exists to promote editorial cartoons. This would be one way to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Bearman</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78505</link>
		<dc:creator>Bearman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78505</guid>
		<description>&quot;what I was thinking was to submit a list of the 10 best editorial cartoons to Huffpost.&quot;

And what makes you think your picks would be any less biased?  Any top 10 list I have ever seen is full of crap and obviously biased or not well thought out.  I just read Entertainment Weekly where they list the &quot;Top Ten Most Notable Events of 2008&quot;  Three of them are movie premieres.  Seriously, the premiere of Sex and the City is one of the top ten of 2008?

Even if you post nominees and have people vote, what you end up with is still not the best.  ie.  Just because someone wins American Idol doesn&#039;t make them the best singer in the competition.

Maybe it&#039;s that people get hung up on the terminology that if someone creates a best of list that it is absolute and therefore insulting to anyone not on the list.  Instead, maybe you create a post of &quot;Ten Editorial Cartoons of 2008 that I Liked Best&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;what I was thinking was to submit a list of the 10 best editorial cartoons to Huffpost.&#8221;</p>
<p>And what makes you think your picks would be any less biased?  Any top 10 list I have ever seen is full of crap and obviously biased or not well thought out.  I just read Entertainment Weekly where they list the &#8220;Top Ten Most Notable Events of 2008&#8243;  Three of them are movie premieres.  Seriously, the premiere of Sex and the City is one of the top ten of 2008?</p>
<p>Even if you post nominees and have people vote, what you end up with is still not the best.  ie.  Just because someone wins American Idol doesn&#8217;t make them the best singer in the competition.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s that people get hung up on the terminology that if someone creates a best of list that it is absolute and therefore insulting to anyone not on the list.  Instead, maybe you create a post of &#8220;Ten Editorial Cartoons of 2008 that I Liked Best&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John Cole</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78504</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78504</guid>
		<description>&quot;That might sound good, as soon as they start paying their bloggers.&quot;

Which will be never, according to the HuffPo CEO.

Now that&#039;s a predatory food-chai ... er, &quot;business model&quot; I&#039;d like to be on top of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That might sound good, as soon as they start paying their bloggers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which will be never, according to the HuffPo CEO.</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s a predatory food-chai &#8230; er, &#8220;business model&#8221; I&#8217;d like to be on top of.</p>
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		<title>By: Darrin Bell</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78503</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrin Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78503</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think the future of editorial cartooning is headed toward original publication on sites like Huffington.&quot;

That might sound good, as soon as they start paying their bloggers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think the future of editorial cartooning is headed toward original publication on sites like Huffington.&#8221;</p>
<p>That might sound good, as soon as they start paying their bloggers.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Wood</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78501</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78501</guid>
		<description>Seth Godin makes a good argument in favor of the economic potential of tribalism on the web. If you can attract (and lead) a tribe, then you&#039;ll be successful. So the &#039;trick&#039; is to either create a place where the tribe comes to you, or you go to where the tribe is already hanging out. I&#039;ll try the latter.

I think it was also Seth though, who expressed the opinion that sites like Huffington will eventually fail because free just doesn&#039;t work longterm. Contributors will eventually want to get paid. Duh.

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth Godin makes a good argument in favor of the economic potential of tribalism on the web. If you can attract (and lead) a tribe, then you&#8217;ll be successful. So the &#8216;trick&#8217; is to either create a place where the tribe comes to you, or you go to where the tribe is already hanging out. I&#8217;ll try the latter.</p>
<p>I think it was also Seth though, who expressed the opinion that sites like Huffington will eventually fail because free just doesn&#8217;t work longterm. Contributors will eventually want to get paid. Duh.</p>
<p><a href="http://sethgodin.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://sethgodin.typepad.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Rhode</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78500</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Rhode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78500</guid>
		<description>The Washington Post&#039;s selection of the year&#039;s best stunk too - it&#039;s not online though so you&#039;ll have to take my word for it. 
http://comicsdc.blogspot.com/2008/12/comic-art-in-todays-washington-post.html

Maybe the Toles one that&#039;ll be coming will be better.

Regarding Huffington Post, I have no idea how the economics work, but I saw Mort Gerberg speak a few days ago and he&#039;s submitting cartoons from one of his new books to them, presumably for the publicity. I know he shows up regularly now in my pre-set Google searches for cartoons. (He was pretty darn amusing in person too) ((Is darn ok, Alan?))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Washington Post&#8217;s selection of the year&#8217;s best stunk too &#8211; it&#8217;s not online though so you&#8217;ll have to take my word for it.<br />
<a href="http://comicsdc.blogspot.com/2008/12/comic-art-in-todays-washington-post.html" rel="nofollow">http://comicsdc.blogspot.com/2008/12/comic-art-in-todays-washington-post.html</a></p>
<p>Maybe the Toles one that&#8217;ll be coming will be better.</p>
<p>Regarding Huffington Post, I have no idea how the economics work, but I saw Mort Gerberg speak a few days ago and he&#8217;s submitting cartoons from one of his new books to them, presumably for the publicity. I know he shows up regularly now in my pre-set Google searches for cartoons. (He was pretty darn amusing in person too) ((Is darn ok, Alan?))</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Wood</title>
		<link>http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78499</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2008/12/18/rall-responds-to-times-top-10-editorial-cartoons/#comment-78499</guid>
		<description>I think the future of editorial cartooning is headed toward original publication on sites like Huffington. Then if it causes a stink, the mainstream media can report on the stink and rerun the cartoon as part of the news article. That way they never have to take a chance - They were only reporting the news, that included a controversial cartoon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the future of editorial cartooning is headed toward original publication on sites like Huffington. Then if it causes a stink, the mainstream media can report on the stink and rerun the cartoon as part of the news article. That way they never have to take a chance &#8211; They were only reporting the news, that included a controversial cartoon.</p>
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